the word science is derived from the greek, or is it the latin word that means theory.which means to me that science is just a guess.---chuck

Thanks to Bob and Tom for adding some transparency  and relief into the mix.
 
To our refined moderator, I hope we can keep the discussion in the same spirit that kept the one about drugs in line.
 
***
 
Mike,
 
I can hear you on a couple of levels, and do not wish to imply that an adept of any faith is a priori intellectually stunted. Let's keep the communication going, I'm not trying to be the next Richard Dawkins.
 
My main point is that you'd be hard put to find a non-religious person who sees any point in creationism. If you accept that, then maybe you can also accept that creationism is a hybrid between science and orthodoxy. Take out the orthodoxy, and you have regular biology. How much orthodoxy do you need to add to an exact science? But perhaps you think biology is not an exact science.  
 
Like Chuck pointed out, science is at best a guess. Faith is certainly not a guess, it's a conviction - and I'm pretty sure we can agree on that.

The advrider.com website has a wonderful forum for threads such as where this one has gone.  It's called Jo Momma and anything/everything goes.  Threads in the other topic areas which devolve into high-drama get put there, and you may also start new threads there.  The folks on that site are pretty good about giving/taking a thrashing in Jo Momma and being remarkably civil and genial in the other forums.  Posters who would appear to despise each other in Jo Momma often become or already are very close friends who are simply taking advantage of a free expression open discussion area.  It's a wonderful thing, and tends to keep the other, more relevant, threads *nice* and relatively inoffensive.  Perhaps this site could use a Jo Momma area?
 
That said, I believe we all carry our own unique set of faiths, guesses, convictions, beliefs, hopes and wishes.  Even though we may appear to agree on pretty much everything, we will still disagree on many things.  More important to note, however, is that even when we appear to disagree on pretty much everything, we still probably really agree on most things that matter.  
 
John

... except on what matters most - J/K.
 
In case anyone feels the need to address me, note that I will probably be off-line until the weekend.
 
Do I need to apologize for derailing the thread?

Dave,
Not to worry.
 
Bob,
Yes, I meant ?take exception? and your humor is appreciated and not heavy handed. Although, I think that faith can be supported through discovery.
 
Adriaan,
 
I will read more into Richard Dawkins, he does put forward some interesting thoughts. By the same token I?m not suited to be the next Michael Behe.  
 
In general, I am wary of any individual or group that exploits scientific methodology to support pre-conceived suppositions at the expense of alternative solutions, discovery or reasoning. I include Christians in this group, too.
 
Personally, I enjoy science and nature programming and articles and will readily defer to learning something new about the natural world around me. Being a Christian doesn't mean I need to check my brain in at the hat counter. I believe that we were in part created to explore and discover. I don?t think it?s an accident that we are a curious bunch. Suffice it to say, ?We?ll all know in the end.?
 
Correction: Should have used ?origin? (in a broad sense) instead of ?basis? in my first post.
 
Mike

No, I don't think you need to apologize. If any one should, it would be me.

All I can say on the original subject is -- I was flipping thru the channels one day, and happened upon this show.  It was someone who had a goldfish in a glass...drank the glass and goldfish.  Then stuck his finger down his throat, and brought the contents back up, into the glass.  The fish was still alive.  They cheered thier creativeness.
 
NEVER AGAIN.
 
Gah.
 
--T

O.K., I know this is a touchy subject and one of those that shouldn't be brought up at the dinner table among polite company.  Nevertheless, I can't stand by on the sidelines any longer and let such an obviously backward, faith-based, un-educated, illogical, un-scientific, dare I say downright IGNORANT opinion be expressed.  How 'bout them Cowboys???!!!!  Jeeesh, they signed T.O. for dog's sake!  
 
Bill, tgo

Bill, they did spank Manning Sunday!

Stop, my side hurts from laughing. Just can't decide if it's from Bill's comment or Jerry Jones's twisted mind.

This thread has now come full circle.

Almost Olie.
 
 
Beer.
 
 
Now it's come full circle.  And you know I'm only kidding about the Cowboys.  As a Niner fan, I have little cred these days.  LOL
 
Bill, tgo

little cred? Man, try being a 'Skins and Steelers fan in Dallas...sorry Olie, but it's true.
bassesbeerbikes, there we go, the triumverate is complete

My full circle was referring to the Jackass- Jerry Jones analogy.
 
I guess it is his money!

OOPs, Hit the button twice.
 
(Message edited by olieoliver on November 21, 2006)